Williams (Donelson) 'Jay Armstrong' design Water Key Removal 'How To'

[tskeldon]

Hi everyone,

Does anyone know how to remove the unusual 'Jay Armstrong' water key from his Donelson Williams trombones? I need to replace the spring, and the whole assembly, though elegant, seems rather fragile, so I don't want to encourage it against its natural enthusiasm. Thanks!

Tim

[tskeldon]

Being caused to return to this forum by this current fancy (during my dystonic absence), I've just learned that John Duda has passed. Condolences to those of you who knew him better than I. He was a generous man. He would have known, and more importantly...he would have offerred counsel. He will be missed, especially by those of you who were close enough to hin to realize his worth.

[HawaiiTromboneGuy]

Yes, it’s unfortunate that John Duda has now left us.

As for your dilemma, I had two Donelson horns with that water key. Luckily I never had to replace or repair either of them. You could try and reach out to Mike over at BAC. He might know a thing or two about that particular design. If you’re lucky, he may even have a spare key.

[Bonearzt]

How do you operate it??

[JohnL]

How do you operate it??

Looks like you press on the donut-looking bit and the entire silver part rotates in the brass sleeve.

Is there anything on either end of the shaft that looks like it can be unscrewed?

[Bonearzt]

How do you operate it??

Looks like you press on the donut-looking bit and the entire silver part rotates in the brass sleeve.
Is there anything on either end of the shaft that looks like it can be unscrewed?

OK, I see it now. Thanks John!

Interesting design, but don't see how it comes apart unless there's a screw on the cork end we can't see.

[BGuttman]

If I were designing it, I'd probably put the screw on the trigger side (end with the spring). You would slide the thing out through the end of the slide. Install new spring (good luck finding one! -- you need a coil spring with legs you can bend) as you press the rod back in and tighten back down from the end.

[timothy42b]

I think we should merge this with the other thread, the one called "unnecessary complexity???"

[afugate]

Hard to tell from the picture, but is that an allen-head screw in the donut? If so, perhaps that can be unscrewed to release somehow?
--Andy in OKC

Note: Yes, it looks like there's an allen-head screw in there. I ran across this from old forum member, John Noxon.
http://www.jnoxon.com/interview-jay-armstrong.html

[Matt K]

I think we should merge this with the other thread, the one called "unnecessary complexity???"

Its funny that we're talking about this. I had a tech who was usually pretty dismissive of what he considered minor adjustments (rubber nipple placement/removal, harmonic pillars, etc.) but he was really into the idea of changing the tension on the spring in the water key as a way of adjusting the feel. Maybe he just didn't want to install a Saturn Water Key for me. I can't remember who it was though... that was a couple years ago. Came up because they wanted to make sure I wanted the Saturn on rather than adjusting the existing key to have a little more oomph.

[tskeldon]

As always, you guys are amazing. Thank you all! My next step, as luck would have it, was to pursue the 'other' John (meaning of course John Noxon).

From the design drawings included in the post by Andy in OKC (which I find that I actually have but failed to consult) I can see, as those of you who are more observant than I 'saw, confirmation of the tiny allen screw which is set at a obscure tangent through the 'donut' hole.

The short of it is that It's off, and I am in your collective debt Sirs (and Andy immediately and John ulimately)! Fortunately I know someone who can build the spring to original specs!

P.S. Sorry for the late replys. I don't seem to be able to follow my own posts and get notification of response so I can repay the kindness the sooner.

[afugate]

As always, you guys are amazing. Thank you all! My next step, as luck would have it, was to pursue the 'other' John (meaning of course John Noxon).

From the design drawings included in the post by Andy in OKC (which I find that I actually have but failed to consult) I can see, as those of you who are more observant than I 'saw, confirmation of the tiny allen screw which is set at a obscure tangent through the 'donut' hole.

The short of it is that It's off, and I am in your collective debt Sirs (and Andy immediately and John ulimately)! Fortunately I know someone who can build the spring to original specs!

P.S. Sorry for the late replys. I don't seem to be able to follow my own posts and get notification of response so I can repay the kindness the sooner.

Super!

Now... how well does it work?

--Andy in OKC

[tskeldon]

Spring replaced, and it works as ever it has! As I am made to understand it Jay was quite pleased with his water key design and had, I think, patented it! It works well enough and is, I think, visually linear and unobtrusive, but I fear that it is a bit...fragile. There is very little actual material attaching the cover to the armiture, so it wouldn't take much to break a cast piece like that right off. One good crack against a Manhasset music stand and it might be all over.