I have a young trumpet student with an unusual problem. Air is leaking out of the nose when he play. He has a very thin sound but his embouchure looks in fact perfect. To me it seems it is not much air coming through the horn, because when he stop playing it's coming air out both the nose and mouth.
I tried to change the mouthpiece to a bigger one, 1 1/4C. Didn't help much, Tried to make him think about open his throat and open the lips a little bit, and make the tongue stay away down in the mouth. Helps a little there and then. Don't know what to do? He sits straight and he don't bend the neck down. Everything looks perfect, but the sound is so thin and weak.
Leif
Help with a young trumpet player
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Savio
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Burgerbob
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Re: Help with a young trumpet player
Might be worth practicing blowing air out of the mouth, then blowing air out of the nose, back and forth. He may just not be aware of the mechanism.
Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teacher
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Doug Elliott
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Re: Help with a young trumpet player
Yes, that's what would suggest too. But some people have a defect in the soft palate that doesn't seal all the way. Sometimes it requires surgery. I think I remember reading about somebody who had that.
"I know a thing or two because I've seen a thing or two."
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cmcslide
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Re: Help with a young trumpet player
How about a nose clip like you might use for swimming? I know a horn student who uses one on the advice of her teacher. Once your student gets used to how it feels, then you can remove it.
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Savio
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Re: Help with a young trumpet player
Thanks guys, I try all these advices next lesson so he might be aware where the air should go. Hope it's nothing wrong with the soft palate. He is a very interested and a bright young kid that wants to learn, only 13 years old. Also very active in football.
Leif
Leif
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Crazy4Tbone86
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Re: Help with a young trumpet player
In 35 years of teaching lessons, I have actually come across this multiple times. Almost all of these have been students who recently had their tonsils/adenoids removed or some type of ENT surgery. Here is a list of the exercises I used (very similar to ideas that BurgerBob and Doug mentioned).....
*Blow LONG TONE exhalations out of the mouth (no instrument or mouthpiece) while holding the nose closed with fingers. I would have the student do this in sets of tens. Recreate the same LONG TONE exhalation without holding the nose. At first, there might be leakage through the sinuses, but repetition and time will produce results.
*Blow half note and quarter note rhythmic pattern exhalations out of the mouth (no instrument or mouthpiece) while holding the nose closed with fingers. The musician can inhale in between rhythms as needed. The pattern should be about 8 pulses in total and, again, be repeated in sets of ten. Recreate the same rhythmic pattern exhalations without holding the nose. Again, there will be leakage in the first few days, but the laryngeal muscles usually start kicking into action after four or five days of repetition.
NOW REVERSE EVERYTHING. INSTEAD OF THE LONG TONE EXHALATIONS AND RHYTHMIC PATTERNS BEING EXHALED OUT OF THE MOUTH, ALL OF THE EXHALATIONS SHOULD BE OUT OF THE NOSE. Thus, the opposite exercises will be done like this:
*Blow LONG TONE exhalations out of the nose while holding the mouth closed. Again... sets of tens. Then, recreate the same sinus LONG TONE exhalations while leaving the mouth open. This takes practice because most people instinctively close their mouths when focusing all of their air out of their nose.
*Blow half note and quarter note rhythmic pattern exhalations through the nose (no instrument or mouthpiece) while holding the mouth closed. Again, the patterns should be about 8 pulses in total and, again, be repeated in sets of ten. Recreate the same rhythmic pattern sinus exhalations while leaving the mouth open. Again....this will take PRACTICE and FOCUS because the mouth will automatically want to close.
After the above exercises have become comfortable and there is mouth/nose control, try the same exercise with a mouthpiece on the mouth. This can be done in two stages: 1. Only air sounds in the mouthpiece. 2. Actual buzzing in the mouthpiece.
Obviously, the mouthpiece should not be placed on the nose when exhaling through the nose. However for some students, adding the mouthpiece can complicate things and the sinus leakage comes back. Take it slow and be patient!
*Blow LONG TONE exhalations out of the mouth (no instrument or mouthpiece) while holding the nose closed with fingers. I would have the student do this in sets of tens. Recreate the same LONG TONE exhalation without holding the nose. At first, there might be leakage through the sinuses, but repetition and time will produce results.
*Blow half note and quarter note rhythmic pattern exhalations out of the mouth (no instrument or mouthpiece) while holding the nose closed with fingers. The musician can inhale in between rhythms as needed. The pattern should be about 8 pulses in total and, again, be repeated in sets of ten. Recreate the same rhythmic pattern exhalations without holding the nose. Again, there will be leakage in the first few days, but the laryngeal muscles usually start kicking into action after four or five days of repetition.
NOW REVERSE EVERYTHING. INSTEAD OF THE LONG TONE EXHALATIONS AND RHYTHMIC PATTERNS BEING EXHALED OUT OF THE MOUTH, ALL OF THE EXHALATIONS SHOULD BE OUT OF THE NOSE. Thus, the opposite exercises will be done like this:
*Blow LONG TONE exhalations out of the nose while holding the mouth closed. Again... sets of tens. Then, recreate the same sinus LONG TONE exhalations while leaving the mouth open. This takes practice because most people instinctively close their mouths when focusing all of their air out of their nose.
*Blow half note and quarter note rhythmic pattern exhalations through the nose (no instrument or mouthpiece) while holding the mouth closed. Again, the patterns should be about 8 pulses in total and, again, be repeated in sets of ten. Recreate the same rhythmic pattern sinus exhalations while leaving the mouth open. Again....this will take PRACTICE and FOCUS because the mouth will automatically want to close.
After the above exercises have become comfortable and there is mouth/nose control, try the same exercise with a mouthpiece on the mouth. This can be done in two stages: 1. Only air sounds in the mouthpiece. 2. Actual buzzing in the mouthpiece.
Obviously, the mouthpiece should not be placed on the nose when exhaling through the nose. However for some students, adding the mouthpiece can complicate things and the sinus leakage comes back. Take it slow and be patient!
Brian D. Hinkley - Player, Teacher, Technician and Trombone Enthusiast
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PaulTdot
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Re: Help with a young trumpet player
It's definitely possible to develop control issues of the soft palate. I've only heard of it in brass players, but I've met a few woodwind players (especially on oboe, or other instruments with high blowing resistance) who have developed this problem after a particularly difficult period in the career.
A colleague of mine, a classical clarinetist, almost had to end her career when, after a series of stressful concerts, she started "leaking" from the nose when tired, and basically couldn't play. In her case, some rest and time off did the trick (and she was more careful after the fact), but I understand that sometimes it's not treatable (or, at least, not easily).
Hopefully, in this case, some exercises, as recommended above, will do the trick!
A colleague of mine, a classical clarinetist, almost had to end her career when, after a series of stressful concerts, she started "leaking" from the nose when tired, and basically couldn't play. In her case, some rest and time off did the trick (and she was more careful after the fact), but I understand that sometimes it's not treatable (or, at least, not easily).
Hopefully, in this case, some exercises, as recommended above, will do the trick!
Paul T.
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Posaunus
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Re: Help with a young trumpet player
Yes - I know an oboist who periodically was afflicted with "nose leakage." Very distracting. Oboists call this "snorting!" Fortunately, in her case, it has disappeared.PaulTdot wrote: ↑Fri May 28, 2021 9:13 am It's definitely possible to develop control issues of the soft palate. I've only heard of it in brass players, but I've met a few woodwind players (especially on oboe, or other instruments with high blowing resistance) who have developed this problem after a particularly difficult period in the career.