Triad trouble

robcat2075 · Post by **robcat2075** » Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:58 pm

Triad trouble
Modulation mishap
Accidental Accidentals
Non-standard neume notation

I'd like to hear one of those hipster piano guys analyze this.

(To stay within forum guidelines, please comment on the performance rather than the venue)

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:31 pm

OUCH!

Elow · Post by **Elow** » Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:43 pm

Im fighting the urge to make a snarky comment, could they really not get a backing track? Or anything???

robcat2075 · Post by **robcat2075** » Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:37 pm

Whaddya know... Someone has already set it to music:
.

Post by **BGuttman** » Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:58 pm

Wow! How many modulations were there?

Kudos to the guy doing the piano accompaniment after the fact.

Couldn't they have gotten a real singer to perform?

Here's another post hoc accompanied version:

quiethorn · Post by **quiethorn** » Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:21 am

Is this for real?

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:12 am

It's almost like someone accidentally leaned on the auto tune knob that changes the key.

Post by **BGuttman** » Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:17 am

quiethorn wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:21 am Is this for real?

YouTube is full of "Anthem Fail" posts showing this. I haven't found out who the "singer" is. But a lot of guys are putting post hoc accompaniments to the clip. The modulations really stretch their ears.

Doubler · Post by **Doubler** » Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:22 am

She was coached by Roseanne Barr . This reminds me of Candice Bergen, who played a singer in the movie Starting Over. When asked on a late night talk show what technique she used to manage to sing so consistently off-key, she responded: "I didn't know I was singing off-key."

robcat2075 · Post by **robcat2075** » Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:59 am

A reporter for Redstate.com gives this account...

As always, the best part…the singing of our National Anthem…sung straight up…no “artistic interpretation,” by the lovely Ms. Sailor Sabol.

100% true. she went "up" more than once and was not artistic.

cmcslide · Post by **cmcslide** » Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:11 am

This reminds me of the one about the piano player who was subbing in a jazz trio backing up a singer. The bass player is talking the new guy through the setlist... "On Misty, she starts in the key of G, but modulates down to Eb after a couple of bars, then slows down and switches to 3/4 in bar six..."
The singer says, "That's not how the song goes!"
The bass player says, "That's how you did it last night!"

Dennis · Post by **Dennis** » Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:13 am

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:58 pm Triad trouble
Modulation mishap
Accidental Accidentals
Non-standard neume notation

I'd like to hear one of those hipster piano guys analyze this.

(To stay within forum guidelines, please comment on the performance rather than the venue)

Ouch. That is just painful. I made it to the bridge and couldn't bear any more. Her intervals are all compressed: she is sharp going down and flat coming up. There was a blind modulation at the bridge (that was what did me in).

Her voice as a voice isn't bad, but her intonation...ewwww.

soseggnchips · Post by **soseggnchips** » Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:13 am

BGuttman wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:58 pm Here's another post hoc accompanied version:

Love mission control grumbling away over the radio!

quiethorn · Post by **quiethorn** » Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:50 am

BGuttman wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:17 am
quiethorn wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:21 am Is this for real?
YouTube is full of "Anthem Fail" posts showing this. I haven't found out who the "singer" is. But a lot of guys are putting post hoc accompaniments to the clip. The modulations really stretch their ears.

I meant "is this for real?" as in, "are we sure this isn't something someone cooked up to make her sound bad because there are potential political ramifications to making her sound bad at a political conference?"

She's so bad that it almost seems impossible. Like the so-called "orgy of evidence" in criminal forensics, where the evidence for something is so overwhelming that it actually indicates it was faked or staged.

robcat2075 · Post by **robcat2075** » Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:53 pm

quiethorn wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:50 am I meant "is this for real?" as in, "are we sure this isn't something someone cooked up to make her sound bad because there are potential political ramifications to making her sound bad at a political conference?"

She's so bad that it almost seems impossible. Like the so-called "orgy of evidence" in criminal forensics, where the evidence for something is so overwhelming that it actually indicates it was faked or staged.

Could it be fake?

?

Performance art?

So far, I have seen no denials or postings of a "real" clip.

NTD is a real "news" site that covered CPAC. They have CPAC speaker highlights still available as clips but not this SSB moment.

There is a Sailor Sabol on Youtube. After hearing some of her showtunes while accompanied, it is easy to guess that her singing unaccompanied could go even more wrong.

AVClub treats it as real.

An interview with Sailor Sabol would clear it all up.

quiethorn · Post by **quiethorn** » Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:16 pm

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:53 pm
quiethorn wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:50 am I meant "is this for real?" as in, "are we sure this isn't something someone cooked up to make her sound bad because there are potential political ramifications to making her sound bad at a political conference?"

She's so bad that it almost seems impossible. Like the so-called "orgy of evidence" in criminal forensics, where the evidence for something is so overwhelming that it actually indicates it was faked or staged.
Could it be fake?

?

Performance art?

So far, I have seen no denials or postings of a "real" clip.

NTD is a real "news" site that covered CPAC. They have CPAC speaker highlights still available as clips but not this SSB moment.

There is a Sailor Sabol on Youtube. After hearing some of her showtunes while accompanied, it is easy to guess that her singing unaccompanied could go even more wrong.

AVClub treats it as real.

An interview with Sailor Sabol would clear it all up.

Okay, I watched some of her videos. It all makes sense now. She's 18 or 19 (explains the over-confidence in her abilities), still learning how to sing (explains the performance) and very conservative (explains the CPAC connection).

keybone · Post by **keybone** » Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:22 pm

Ah, The Star Mangled Banner - one my favorites!

Doubler · Post by **Doubler** » Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:26 pm

Unscientific/anecdotal observation: I've noticed that those who have no sense of pitch nor rhythm always seem to be the loudest and display an overbearing self-confidence in their abilities (sic). Something with the wiring in their brains, I think.

Doubler · Post by **Doubler** » Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:31 pm

Here's a little something to soothe your ears:

robcat2075 · Post by **robcat2075** » Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:59 pm

In the interest of self-honesty I recorded myself singing SSB from beginning to end with no pitch reference.

Comparing the low and high tonic notes at the beginning, my octave was about 20-30 cents too small.
Comparing the high tonic notes at beginning and end I was about 30 cents sharper by the end.

I'll take that. I don't have a singing voice and can't really hold an unwavering pitch. 30 cents over 60 seconds will have to count as success.
.
.
.
.

I've noticed that as i forward this video to friends, some are not sure there is something wrong with it. Maybe it's "off-key"... but it's not obvious to them.

These are people who are not musicians. They know music exists but have never played an instrument. That is probably a large portion of the population, whose awareness of pitch is not more than "higher" or "lower".

Doubler wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:31 pm Here's a little something to soothe your ears:

That sounds great.

I would like to see future inauguration dial the SSB back to its origins. Get a quartet to barrel through it like a sea chantey. Something with distinctive style but not over-adorned.

Post by **BGuttman** » Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:25 pm

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:59 pm ...

I would like to see future inauguration dial the SSB back to its origins. Get a quartet to barrel through it like a sea chantey. Something with distinctive style but not over-adorned.

I wish I had a recording of us doing it, but the 3rd NH Volunteer Post Band in the Civil War had an arrangement of SSB that they played in the Civil War. It wasn't the National Anthem back then. It was in Eb and actually had a short introduction. You can find it in the Library of Congress Band Music of the Civil War collection (I think -- it's been shuffled around of late). It's in a rather difficult to read ink script. It was also published as part of a small ensemble book called "Heritage Americana" (which contained a number of songs played by different bands during the Civil War). Scored for Eb Cornet (Conductor), 2 Bb Cornets, 2 Eb Altos, 2 Bb Tenors, Bb Baritone, Bb Bass, Eb Tuba, and percussion.

timothy42b · Post by **timothy42b** » Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:18 pm

I couldn't find any other videos of her, maybe she took them all down. She has decent tone and a lot of projection, certainly not a Florence Foster Jenkins.

But if you're that pitchy, I don't know that there's any hope.

We have a tenor in our church wh's so deaf I have to shout instructions, and he doesn't keep a steady beat, I'm always trying to slow down his rushing. But he still sings in tune.

robcat2075 · Post by **robcat2075** » Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:03 pm

timothy42b wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:18 pm I couldn't find any other videos of her, maybe she took them all down.

Yup, they have disappeared from her YouTube since earlier today!

Except for a few on-stage sketches that seemed to be high school(?) productions I didn't get the sense that she had any performing career beyond the singing she was doing for the camera in her bedroom.

One of them had a note to the effect "My mom said this was good so I'll post it," which... might... convey some self-awareness that that was the only favorable opinion she had so far.

But how did she end up singing at CPAC? It's not a gig that any A-list star is going to do, of course, but since it is a gig that has gone completely unnoticed in years past they must have been getting passable performers to do it.

I'm going to guess that one of her parents were involved in the local organizing of this event and said, "hey, my daughter can sing..."

robcat2075 · Post by **robcat2075** » Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:41 pm

It is definitely real. Here is a complete, unedited archive of that entire CPAC Day.

Ms. Sailor "I can sing in four keys" Sabol performs at 26:30

https://www.theepochtimes.com/live-2021 ... 12433.html

Post by **BGuttman** » Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:45 pm

robcat2075 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:41 pm ...

Ms. Sailor "I can sing in four keys" Sabol performs at 26:30

...

Simultaneously!

Bach5G · Post by **Bach5G** » Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:58 pm

“Kudos to the guy doing the piano accompaniment after the fact.

”

Double plus good. I couldn’t make through the verse, I was laughing so hard. She’s no Carl Lewis.

Kbiggs · Post by **Kbiggs** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:08 am

A different take on this:

She’s just a kid
She was out of her depth
She’s not trained
She had no accompaniment
She was nervous
Somebody else who obviously has no musical acumen apparently thought it was a good idea to have her sing

Maybe we can cut her some slack.

Kdanielsen · Post by **Kdanielsen** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:19 am

Kbiggs wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:08 am A different take on this:

She’s just a kid
She was out of her depth
She’s not trained
She had no accompaniment
She was nervous
Somebody else who obviously has no musical acumen apparently thought it was a good idea to have her sing

Maybe we can cut her some slack.

Yes!! We as a society have likely destroyed this person’s confidence/self esteem for a decade. It doesn’t cost anything to be kind. Fire the professional who put her in that situation if someone needs punishment.

I’ve found that a key to working on my own self esteem/confidence issues is learning not to judge others so harshly. If I build a habit of kindness externally, it helps me be able turn that inwards.

Disclaimer: I am not defending her because of politics. I absolutely disagree with her worldview.

Bach5G · Post by **Bach5G** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:22 pm

To be fair, it’s a tough tune. I heard BillyJoel cack it on a hockey broadcast.

I’m sure she’ll get over it.

robcat2075 · Post by **robcat2075** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:32 pm

Kbiggs wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:08 am A different take on this:

She’s just a kid

Nope. She's an adult. A university student! Old enough to be regarded as responsible for her choices and aware of possible outcomes. She can not have been unaware that the SSB is a minefield for singers.
.

She was out of her depth

Yup.
.

She’s not trained

So we presume, but the result is still attention-getting.
.

She had no accompaniment

A [regrettable!] choice she made. Other performers at the event have had accompaniments.

.

She was nervous

Aren't we all, when we perform? But she sure didn't look nervous. She looked like she thought she was aceing it.
.

Somebody else who obviously has no musical acumen apparently thought it was a good idea to have her sing

Yes, that is part of what makes this a story. She wasn't just singing to her webcam in her bedroom. More than one thing had to fail for this to happen.
.

Maybe we can cut her some slack.

What would slack be? Our comments will not impair her future one bit. She was not going to have a solo singing career even if we said nothing.

She is well-connected and will have success in any other endeavor not requiring reasonable approximation of pitches.

I see this as a cautionary tale worthy of discussion.

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:49 pm

I mean, depending on the venue or event, it can be difficult to get a professional to perform. Usually they audition people before they come out and sing the SSB, but I don't know a thing about this particular event. It looks higher profile than the county fair.

Disasters like this can be avoided if people are just honest. Lying about someone's talent just sets them up to fail. I will say, I think this young lady has a voice that could do very well with some training and lessons. Lots of work with a pianist and some drones. You can train relative pitch. Not everyone is born with such a voice, so she has that going for her. But without lessons and knowing what she needs to work on, disaster.

It could have gone down:

Mom: "Honey, it makes me happy to hear you express yourself by singing. Hey have you heard of Barbara Streisand? Let's watch some videos of her singing!"

(This is usually enough to demotivate anyone trying to sing, once they realize what actual singing sounds like)

But Mom didn't do that. So the school could have done the right thing, a la Derry Girls:

Principal: "I'm so glad the school talent show has given you all a venue to express yourselves. You know, every year I sit backstage listening to the singers, and it really makes me realize just how talented the professionals who originally recorded these tracks were. Now, who’s on next?"

But that didn't happen either. Barring that, the real world should have hit at the audition that apparently never took place:

Singer: "ohhhh *key change* say c---"
Show producer: "thank you, next!"

Now finally, it has hit yet the next level beyond that. There is only so far you can go before you are going to get shut down by honesty.

Bach5G · Post by **Bach5G** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:03 pm

Or listened to Whitney’s version.

Post by **BGuttman** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:13 pm

Bach5G wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:03 pm Or listened to Whitney’s version.

There have been many excellent renditions of SSB in the past. Many of them were by opera singers, who usually have the range to carry it out.

Lady Gaga's version, while a bit odd, was enjoyable to listen to.

This rendition was not in the same ballpark.

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:18 pm

"Rendition" is a kind way to put it. The world needs a lot more kindness!

Post by **Doug Elliott** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:28 pm

She's a born leader.
I can't think of any one person who has inspired so much creativity in such a short time.

LeTromboniste · Post by **LeTromboniste** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:47 pm

Maybe she was really going for the "best-off montage" version. That seems to be a trend these days.......

(I was yelling at my screen when I watched that trainwreck live)

Kbiggs wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:08 am Somebody else who obviously has no musical acumen apparently thought it was a good idea

Yeah that seems to be the main problem here.

fsgazda · Post by **fsgazda** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:14 pm

Don't get me started on the Star Spangled Banner. It is the worst national anthem. It fails musically, lyrically, and creatively. A national anthem should be easy to sing, so that all citizens can sing it with confidence. It should be about loving your country, not blowing crap up. It's a drinking song, for pete's sake!

Post by **BGuttman** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:50 pm

The tune is a drinking song. The lyrics are a poem by Francis Scott Key called "The Siege of Fort McHenry". I don't even know if Key was considering the drinking song as he wrote.

Note: want warlike? Look at La Marseillaise.

At the time of the adoption of SSB as the National Anthem, there was a strong contingent pushing for "God Bless America" but the tune was rejected because Irving Berlin was Jewish. Lots of other better choices (in my opinion) such as "America the Beautiful", "Hail, Columbia", and "Columbia the Gem Of the Ocean". Some good songs of more recent vintage as well.

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:53 pm

BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:50 pm Lots of other better choices ... Some good songs of more recent vintage as well.

"Born in the USA" ?

Post by **BGuttman** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:57 pm

Posaunus wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:53 pm
BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:50 pm Lots of other better choices ... Some good songs of more recent vintage as well.
"Born in the USA" ?

Yeah. Or "Proud to be an American"

There's also our take on the English anthem, "My Country 'Tis of Thee".

At the time of the Revolution "Yankee Doodle" was a popular patriotic song. Unfortunately its connotations were of a country of "bumpkins".

CalgaryTbone · Post by **CalgaryTbone** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:05 pm

fsgazda wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:14 pm Don't get me started on the Star Spangled Banner. It is the worst national anthem. It fails musically, lyrically, and creatively. A national anthem should be easy to sing, so that all citizens can sing it with confidence. It should be about loving your country, not blowing crap up. It's a drinking song, for pete's sake!

Good thing that the Star Spangled Banner is a drinking tune. That version definitely made me need a drink!

Jim Scott

quiethorn · Post by **quiethorn** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:33 pm

Any other amateur radio operators get triggered by the Star Spangled Banner being referred to as SSB?

Post by **BGuttman** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:53 pm

I don't use ham radio terms here. Maybe if she was using a Single Side Band it might have sounded better?

JCBone · Post by **JCBone** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:20 am

just gonna leave this here

timothy42b · Post by **timothy42b** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:52 am

quiethorn wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 7:33 pm Any other amateur radio operators get triggered by the Star Spangled Banner being referred to as SSB?

You could slope detect the FM on that one!

LeTromboniste · Post by **LeTromboniste** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:18 am

This just completely blows the competition out of the water!

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:37 am

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:18 am This just completely blows the competition out of the water!

It's good to know that the Canadians got our back! Who said NAFTA wasn't great?

Bach5G · Post by **Bach5G** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:41 pm

Posaunus wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:37 am
LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:18 am This just completely blows the competition out of the water!
It's good to know that the Canadians got our back! Who said NAFTA wasn't great?

Well, D Trump, for one.

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:21 pm

[th][/th]

LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:18 am This just completely blows the competition out of the water!

That is some Jacob Collier level stuff yo. Next level. The joke is on us, and she just didn't have her choir with her.

MagnumH · Post by **MagnumH** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:55 pm

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:21 pm [th][/th]
LeTromboniste wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:18 am This just completely blows the competition out of the water!

That is some Jacob Collier level stuff yo. Next level. The joke is on us, and she just didn't have her choir with her.

Hot damn that is phenomenally good. G ½♯ indeed!