Mutes in a symphonic setting

[Elow]

How often do you really use mutes in an orchestra? The only mute i’ve bought is a shhhmute so i can practice at 2 am.

[Vegasbound]

answer, depends on the rep being played and then usualy a metal straight will be enough, so start putting together a mute bag, as you progress in your musical journey you will need it!

[BGuttman]

The traditional Orchestral mute (dampfer on German music) would be a pear shaped metal one.

I played some music from the 1920s and 1930s that called for Wa-Wa mute.

Pops music will often call for a cup mute.

I normally have an adjustable cup at my orchestra rehearsal, which can be used as a straight (dampfer) or a cup.

[BurckhardtS]

A straight mute and an adjustable cup mute are probably the most two necessary things you'll ever need. Metal straight is great for orchestra rep, and some modern French rep calls for cup mute. The nice thing about adjustable cups is that you can remove the cup, and it can double as a 'straight' if you happen to forget yours. Or don't have enough space to bring one.

I advocate soft-tone mutes for buckets, and putting them half on gives almost the same color. Buckets are just incredibly difficult to get on and off quickly.

I also hate harmon mutes because they always fall out. I have used them in the past but I haven't had to buy one yet. You would need one if you want to do the Wah effect, but if you're just looking for a buzzy mute, you can just completely seal with a plunger and blast.

[BGuttman]

...

I also hate harmon mutes because they always fall out. I have used them in the past but I haven't had to buy one yet. You would need one if you want to do the Wah effect, but if you're just looking for a buzzy mute, you can just completely seal with a plunger and blast.

Rhapsody in Blue has a solo for the 1st Trombone using a Wah-Wah. I auditioned a Hamon and a ClearTone and far and away the ClearTone sounded better. The Grofe Mississippi Suite also calls for Wah-Wah Trombone.

Never had to use a bucket in Orchestra, but I agree with you about the SofTone. Plus, it's a great warmup mute.

[CalgaryTbone]

It depends on the level of the ensemble you're playing with, and the diversity of the repertoire.

Every symphonic trombonist needs a good metal straight mute -You need it often. If it's a professional group, you may find that having straight mutes of different materials (wood/fibre) is a good idea to match the trumpet players, and to get a less "buzzy" sound for certain uses.

If the orchestra plays Pops concerts, cup mutes, harmons, plungers and even buckets are needed. Some composers of contemporary classical music are increasingly using all of these mutes. There are some works that cross genres as well, like Gershwin - which was already mentioned in an earlier post.

Players in professional orchestras often have a couple of different metal straights as well, because conductors can sometimes be choosy about the muted sound for a particular passage. You have to keep the boss happy!

Jim Scott

[dukesboneman]

I`ve always found that finding what your section mates are using and try to be consistent.
I have the luxury of having multiple Mutes available. (Garage sales, gifts and etc..)
I think 1st match section-wise then worry about the trumpets

[CalgaryTbone]

I`ve always found that finding what your section mates are using and try to be consistent.
I have the luxury of having multiple Mutes available. (Garage sales, gifts and etc..)
I think 1st match section-wise then worry about the trumpets

Agreed - but I sometimes do both. My section has fibre mutes as well for certain pieces. Occasionally, I'll have 2 straight mutes with me on stage if there are vastly different sounds expected for various passages.

In Mahler symphonies, for instance, metal mutes might be the best choice for all of the loud stuff, and a fibre mute might be more appropriate on the soft passages in octaves with the 1st Trumpet if that is what he's using.

Metal mutes are still the usual choice, so it's rare to use multiple straights, but it happens.

Jim Scott

[Thrawn22]

I've needed a straight mute for orchestra maybe for 2 concerts out of a season every season.

In general you should have a straight and cup since you'll use those more than any other mutes. A bucket couldn't hurt.

[harrisonreed]

You need these mutes, in this order. I don't believe you'll be disappointed or misled if you buy any of these mutes.

Straight mute: Jo-ral copper bottom metal straight mute. There are other brands, and maybe your orchestra section is at that level where you all need to be on the same mute, with the same material bottom (like brass or aluminum), and different materials for different pieces, but you simply cannot go wrong with the Jo-Ral straight copper bottom 99.99% of the time.

fiber straight mute: Peter Gane straight mute sometimes you can't tell what mute to use but metal doesn't sound right for the piece, and there are no recordings or videos to check to help you out. Use the Peter Gane mute. Also good for pops concerts

Harmon/wah wah mute: Jo-Ral Bubble Mute these come up in some very popular music as well as very modern music. You can't do the solo in Rhapsody in Blue without one. Useful if you do pops concerts.

Plunger mute: Humes and Berg Stonelined plunger
If your orchestra does pops night, sorry, you need this mute. "Oh but you can't deform it blah blah blah" -- that's one seriously big bandy pops concert if you're worried about that. It is the correct mute that you need for Berio's Sequenza and tons of other modern solos, concertos, and orchestral pieces of the not-so-easy-listening variety. It can even substitute for my almost least favorite mute, the cup mute.

Cup mute: Humes and Berg Stonelined Cup or the convertible metal kind...
Cup mutes suck. They sound bad, and aren't fun to play. Whereas other mutes each add something, the cup mute only takes away. The HB Stonelined is the cheapest you can get and sounds just as bad as the other cup mutes. Why pay more? Or use a humes and berg stonelined plunger (if you can get away with it) sort of in the same position as the cup on a cup mute -- it'll sound better but you need to be careful that it doesn't move and give the plunger effect. I just put it on a little stand that holds it in place so I just play into it. You need them for pops concerts, to appease whoever it is that keeps writing "cup mute" into the dang parts.

Other mutes. If you're in the orchestra, hopefully you never need to buy any other TYPES of mutes. You'll probably need different brands or variants depending on where you wind up and who your team is. If you end up having to buy bucket mutes, cleartones, pixies, or other mutes that ruin your day when you have to buy one for one line in one piece and never use it end again, I'm sorry. It's like the toll fee you gotta pay.

[CalgaryTbone]

Good list with some good brand choices. I would just add that I have had call to use a bucket mute on symphony pops shows and on a couple of contemporary pieces. The JoRal is good because it can be added/removed quickly, but it's very heavy. EZ Bucket and Soulo are both almost as quick for changes, much lighter and sound very good. The Humes and Berg is the classic sound, but they are a pain to add/remove and in my opinion, aren't worth it for symphonic work, where you might use it once every 2 years for a few bars.

Jim Scott

[BGuttman]

Remember that Elow, who started this thread, appears to be a younger player just getting started and most likely in a School organization.

For a strictly classical operation, a good metal straight is the best thing to start with. If you get into Pops, add a cup. Additional mutes can be added as the case arises.

For someone who is playing Big Band, you need a Straight, a Cup, a Plunger, and a Bucket. Those are the basic tools. Other mutes can be added as needed or desired. I've also simulated a bucket holding a plunger or the cup part of an adjustable cup a few inches from the bell and playing into it.

[Bach5G]

I like the Wick straight/cup. I’m a little dubious about its durability, but the convenience factor is significant. Throw a plunger and a Softone in with the Wick and you’ve got the basic food groups covered.

Also, in an orch setting, best not to punt your alum straight mute into the violas.

[Thrawn22]

Cup and straight are fine for now and if you're on a budget look at the classifieds.

There is a seller on ebay that i have recently gotten a near new denis wick tenor cup and straight for $50 combined before shipping. He has those on ebay right now.

[imsevimse]

How often? In a windorchestra concert it is almost always at least one tune that uses a mute, often a couple of tunes. Often it just says mute and then I use a straight mute. Sometimes it says cup-mute and only occasional it says wawa-mute.

/Tom

[Dennis]

It depends on the level of the ensemble you're playing with, and the diversity of the repertoire.

Every symphonic trombonist needs a good metal straight mute -You need it often. If it's a professional group, you may find that having straight mutes of different materials (wood/fibre) is a good idea to match the trumpet players, and to get a less "buzzy" sound for certain uses.

Jim Scott

I was playing Don Gillis' Tulsa: A Symphonic Portrait in Oil (actually, it's a pretty good piece of music). The first note of the piece is an sfz middle C in a cup. I was using a Jo-Ral adjustable cup at the time. It worked well for everything else I needed a cup for, but in the first rehearsal I couldn't hit that C in a way that made the guy with one stick happy. Too much attack. No, more attack. No, too much...let's move on, (to me) please work on that.

At the dress rehearsal I brought the beat-to-hell stone-lined cup mute I got back in high school. Bingo. I got it right the first time. At the break, I went to the conductor and told him, "For future reference, tell the first trombonist to use a fiber cup mute rather than a metal cup. That will get you the sound you want."

[TimMyersSTL]

I have used the following mutes in the orchestra (with my current mutes in parentheses):

• Metal straight: (Jo-Ral as everyday, Crown copper end occasionally, Denis Wick occasionally)
• Wooden straight: (Facet, wood unknown; Denis Wick wooden occasionally for very soft passages)
• Cup: (Facet, limba wood)
• Bucket: (Soulo SM5812)
• Harmon (Denis Wick)
• Solotone: Stonelined ClearTone by Humes & Berg)
• Hat (Stonelined 120B by Humes & Berg)
• Plunger (common hardware store variety, with inner rim trimmed off Al Grey style; WC mute by Wayne Coniglio in St. Louis, http://wcmute.com/)
• Mel-o-wah by Humes & Berg

Practice mute: Best Brass


Timothy Myers
Principal Trombone, Saint Louis Symphony
Teacher of Applied Music, Trombone, at Washington University in St. Louis
Member, The Trombones of the Saint Louis Symphony
STL Trombones, LLC

[Driswood]

I advocate soft-tone mutes for buckets, and putting them half on gives almost the same color. Buckets are just incredibly difficult to get on and off quickly.

I have an EZ Bucket. With only 3 points of contact, you can slide it on with one hand. Is very stable, lightweight, and doesn't fall off. Authentic bucket sound.

https://www.hickeys.com/music/brass/tro ... _mutes.php

[vetsurginc]

Thoughts on buckets for bass bone? I am using the soft-tone like BurckhardtS as it is realatively quick, and quiet to place and remove. If it's a really only for a couple of measures I just play into the stand.

doug maccoy

[BGuttman]

Thoughts on buckets for bass bone? I am using the soft-tone like BurckhardtS as it is realatively quick, and quiet to place and remove. If it's a really only for a couple of measures I just play into the stand.

doug maccoy

Bucket for a few measures means the composer (or the arranger) is totally incompetent. Playing in the stand is OK. or hand over bell, or play into a plunger held a few inches away from the bell (tough to do if they are trigger notes, though).

[ParLawGod]

In orchestras, I use mutes moderately often. Not so much with the "traditional" repertoire, but outside of that. Newly commissioned works often call for them, pops repertoire (seeing more of that these days...whole separate discussion, some love it some hate it), and when we back up outside acts (one year we backed up a vocal jazz group...needed literally everything in the mute arsenal that day).

Pet peeve - bringing one mute every rehearsal for a single note. Ahhhhhh, the life...

Tim's list of mutes is terrific! Though we all will have our individual preferences on brands/sound.

[FOSSIL]

I have used the following mutes in the orchestra (with my current mutes in parentheses):

• Metal straight: (Jo-Ral as everyday, Crown copper end occasionally, Denis Wick occasionally)
• Wooden straight: (Facet, wood unknown; Denis Wick wooden occasionally for very soft passages)
• Cup: (Facet, limba wood)
• Bucket: (Soulo SM5812)
• Harmon (Denis Wick)
• Solotone: Stonelined ClearTone by Humes & Berg)
• Hat (Stonelined 120B by Humes & Berg)
• Plunger (common hardware store variety, with inner rim trimmed off Al Grey style; WC mute by Wayne Coniglio in St. Louis, http://wcmute.com/)
• Mel-o-wah by Humes & Berg

Practice mute: Best Brass


Timothy Myers
Principal Trombone, Saint Louis Symphony
Teacher of Applied Music, Trombone, at Washington University in St. Louis
Member, The Trombones of the Saint Louis Symphony
STL Trombones, LLC

You have, of course, nailed it.... yes, even a practise mute...Elliott Carter comes to mind on that one. I made my own bucket mute when I was 17 and still use it ! Still better than anything else....and as professional musicians we can't and don't substitute a different type of mute...that's just not on. I use a lot of Wallace mutes...I helped develop many of them...the bass cup is streets ahead of anything else.
Advice for the kids...buy them as you need them...the cost adds up.

Chris

[TheBoneRanger]

Advice for the kids...buy them as you need them...the cost adds up.

Spot on.

I bought a Denis Wick bass harmon for a gig in my first year of university. That was 20 years ago. And I have used it a grand total of...once!!

Andrew