Sauer and Alessi

[brtnats]

Well, can't we talk about attack from a musical point of view ??? As a reader, this thread gets way more interesting when we talk music.
Your Sulek example Gabe... Ralph recorded that more than 40 years ago, so tonally it is a child of the recording technology of the time. Although I could not see a date I am assuming Joe's recording is more recent...at least it sounds that way, but I don't hear such a big difference in articulation in itself. The funny thing is that to me, Joe's style has more of a connect to older styles, especially in his portamento. Elements of the early 20th century but in a very refined, modern way. Ralph plays within that strong Remington tradition, but with his own musicianship, elegant refinement.
I have heard much stronger articulation on this side of the pond, though there is now a much less articulated style prevalent here.

Chris

I think that’s a very interesting point. I hear a lot of what Joe does as a soloist as a logical 20th-century extension of 19th century coloratura operatic technique. To my ears the approach sounds a lot like older recordings of Pryor and Defaye. Ralph shows his Remington roots in more straightforward vocal lines and a (to my ears) smoother sound.

[GabrielRice]

[media]https://www.dropbox.com/s/h396m3outof63 ... s.mp3?dl=0[/media]

Somebody sent me this, a live recording of Joe, Ralph, Brian Wendel, and Ethan Scholl on bass, playing Ralph's arrangement of the Albinoni/Giazotto Adagio. No indication of who played which part, and I couldn't begin to guess. Well, maybe I could begin, but I wouldn't put any money on it.

[GabrielRice]

Actually, listening again, I can't guess.

[Burgerbob]

I'm going to guess Alessi on 2nd, or the one panned all the way to the left. Ralph on first (2nd to the left) is my guess.

Ethan sounds amazing here, btw!

[CalgaryTbone]

I would guess that Joe is playing the top (melody) part. I've heard him live enough to feel like I recognize his sound, legato and vibrato. Of course, these are all great players, so any of them would do a fantastic job on any part, so I could be wrong on that. The 4 of them sound beautiful - what a great arrangement too! Thanks for sharing this!

On another front, I'm not sure how to share the link here, but I just came across a clip on YouTube of a live broadcast of Ralph Sauer playing the Serocki Concerto with the LA Philharmonic and Mehta (from 1980). I first heard that broadcast live as a student back then. Really terrific trombone playing from a time when you almost never got to hear a trombonist soloing with an orchestra. Look for it and check it out!

Jim Scott

[GabrielRice]

I seem to remember Ralph posting a picture from a rehearsal for that on facebook. He was wearing some epic pants.

[CalgaryTbone]

All of us that lived through the 70s/80s have pictures that feature fashion choices we'd like to forget! There may be similar regret 40 - 50 years from now for high school/college students of today.

[Neo Bri]

On another front, I'm not sure how to share the link here, but I just came across a clip on YouTube of a live broadcast of Ralph Sauer playing the Serocki Concerto with the LA Philharmonic and Mehta (from 1980). I first heard that broadcast live as a student back then. Really terrific trombone playing from a time when you almost never got to hear a trombonist soloing with an orchestra. Look for it and check it out!

Jim Scott

You just copy and paste the link like this:


And if you want it to be embedded in the post, you position the link between two [media] brackets like this:



And yeah, it's pretty crazy. Sounds great.

[CalgaryTbone]

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed the link too!

[TomRiker]

Sauer and Alessi are both obviously fantastic individual musicians and personalities.

They are both perfect examples of the two completely different downstream embouchures. All of their playing characteristics are typical of their embouchure type in it's most correct form.

It's all intertwined - you're more likely to succeed when your musical and sound concepts agree with your mechanical characteristics, and you celebrate those differences.

Doug I remember being in a lesson once (decades ago) and my teacher telling me that my embouchure was more like Kai Windings than JJ Johnson's, but that my sound goals were more JJ than Kai. That teacher was referring to the corners of my embouchure specifically, and not mouthpiece placement. do you think that's a reasonable thing to work on/the right approach, or should I consider changing my sound concept? Do players ever successfully change their mouthpiece placement, or some other aspect of their embouchure based on sound concept?

[Doug Elliott]

This thread is not the place to get into that discussion, sorry.