Making a Kanstul 1585 Modular

[Jbeckett]

Bought a Kanstul 1585 for a good price. Didn’t get a lot of pictures of the bell, but was told it had a crease that was repaired. It had a crease that was repaired, but was thinned, had another crease going from the bottom (wire bead) of the rim, up, that had been “repaired”. Don’t know who did it, and at this point, it doesn’t matter.
My question is will a Shires bell, with obvious female and male hardware, fit without moving bell bracing and bracing before the tuning slide? I imagine being very close to a Bach configuration, it should match up.
I know I’ll have to get some of the attachment bracing removed, and that’s no issue. May even free up the bell some. The existing bell sounds as though the wire ring wasn’t soldered correctly in the repair and vibrates, but other than that, it just sounds dead, thin, and doesn’t resonate the way my Yamaha bells do. I know kanstul instruments play better than that.
I’m hoping swapping and making it convertible/modular, will give me more options in the future as well.
BTW, the CR valves, are very nice.
Any help is appreciated.

[Burgerbob]

It probably wouldn't fit out of the box. But not the hardest thing to get to fit either.

[Jbeckett]

I’m imagining some minor adjustments, but hopefully nothing terrible. I’ve got a great tech (sweeeny brass, Raleigh NC) on it. If all else fails, may even just do a non-modular swap.

[BGuttman]

I had a Yamaha 682G that suffered a traumatic injury to the bell (a long, sad story). I had a friend who worked at Shires and he arranged for me to buy a replacement bell and have it installed by Steve. Note that Steve regulated my 682 when I bought it from Osmun Brass.

It was impossible to make the bell replaceable due to the bracing. So I got a 1G bell (you could only get 1G or 1Y back in those days). This was when you paid for your Shires horn and waited for 2 years for delivery. Because of my friend working at Shires I was able to get it after only about 9 months. When I got it back it had a terrible raw sound. I thought I had made a terrible mistake.

Over the next 6 months either the horn "broke in" or I adapted to the new setup. Don't know the exact reason, nor do I really care. Now the combo plays better than the original 682.

I'm just relating this story to say you can't expect the transplant to be modular -- depends on a lot of factors. Also, it may not be fantastic right out of the box.

Good luck whatever you decide.

[Jbeckett]

Thanks for that. Experience always helps!

[tbonesullivan]

Are there any pictures of the crease you can share? Shires bells are single piece, so there is a bell seam on the bottom. They use yellow brass for bell brazing, so all you will see are imperfections in the brass, not a red line as you would on some other maker's bells.

[Jbeckett]

The creases are on the bell flare of the kanstul. There is one repaired around the rim, and one repaired from the rim up the flare. The rest of the damage is just dents on the Kanstul.
The shires bell I’m buying is a two piece, gold brass, 10” bell. It’s like new. I’m ok with acid bleed, if it happens, and not concerned as much about cosmetics.
The shop that bought Kanstuls mandrels quoted me $1500 for a new bell unlacquered. I’m trying to make the horn modular, while at the same time getting rid of a dead sounding, thinned out from repair, kanstul bell. It plays, but could play much better.

[hyperbolica]

...
The shop that bought Kanstuls mandrels quoted me $1500 for a new bell unlacquered. ...

I bought a new bell from Kanstul about 4 years ago, and it was only $650. I see BAC is making great improvements on Kanstul's legacy,

[Jbeckett]

I don’t think there can be many improvements on Zig’s work.And I wasn’t trying to point out who it was. They do fine work. But, I’d rather find a replacement from another brand and make it modular. The horn wasn’t much more than that.

[ericcheng2005]

I’m imagining some minor adjustments, but hopefully nothing terrible. I’ve got a great tech (sweeeny brass, Raleigh NC) on it. If all else fails, may even just do a non-modular swap.

Never thought I would see another Scott Sweeney fan on this forum

[Jbeckett]

He does good work. A bunch of the Army/Navy band players from the Norfolk VA take their horns to him.

[ericcheng2005]

He does good work. A bunch of the Army/Navy band players from the Norfolk VA take their horns to him.

He's very good! I get my horn chem cleaned by him every year or so

[tbonesullivan]

Looking back, definitely best to get in touch with a tech, and see what they feel is best. The attachment tubing braces are there for strength, but also to help with the resonance. Too little bracing can have a negative impact, so moving the brace to attach to one of the bell braces would be best.

[Jbeckett]

Ended up deciding against making the horn modular.
Took it to Sweeney Brass in Raleigh NC. Gave it the royal treatment. Turns out the bead wasn’t straight, and the creases weren’t truly ironed out. So, Scott Sweeney took care of it. Took off my slide crook, did a “slide dr.” Type of job (like glass) and reattached. Even took out the CR valves, replaced the bearings, reassembled the whole thing, moved the gb lever where I needed it, and it is phenomenal. No vibration or buzz, no crap look to the bell. It wasn’t actually “thinned” rather it just looked that way due to the shoddy repair job.
I can not recommend Sweeney Brass enough. Does custom horn too. Has an original 42g with an O E Thayer on sale for cheap. I highly recommend.
So, no modular, but I don’t think I need it. Works xtremely well like it is.

[tbonesullivan]

Awesome! Great to hear that a Kanstul horn has been returned to fully operational status. I doubt there will be any more made, and I don't know if BAC has any plans to resume production of any of their models.