Are we over-thinking things?

[MrHCinDE]

I’m starting to think I’ve been over-complicating things.It’s hard to describe this without it sounding like a humblebrag but go through these questions and think about if any apply to you. It’s about a workshop I went to at the weekend as a guest on an unfamiliar instrument. Let me explain:

Did it matter that I’d not played that exact copy of the instrument before?
No, absolutely not

Did it matter which year or factory it was built in?
Nope

How important were the bell size, material etc.?
It had one, that was enough for me

What about the bore size, valves and other construction details?
Well, it was a very playable instrument and well maintained but no different to any other instrument in a similar range from other manufacturers I’ve played

Surely the mouthpiece was important?
Yes, I needed to borrow one, I don’t have one that fits but after a few minutes I got used to it

So what was important?
Listening, watching, adjustment, teamwork, musicality and concentration.

Now it definitely wasn’t all perfect, there are one or two bars in each piece I’d like to have another look at in a sectional but this was nothing to do with the instrument and can be fixed in an hour or so.

Another thought I had was I’ve possibly been over-practicing and obsessing over relatively minor details. I could think of orchestral pieces I’ve played where the trombones have very little technical stuff to play compared with what I played at the weekend. I practiced those sections for hours and they went ok in the concert, only for something unexpected to happen elsewhere which I didn’t react to quickly enough (i.e. intonation, tempo), or to miss a simple entry. It’s easy to get so focussed on one part, that you forget about the basics in the rest of the concert. Another manifestation of this (ok, intonation is more than a minor detail) is is when you work through every chord in a sectional and get it just right. Great, but by the conductor telling every player to move up/down indivually, it's easy to lose the habit of listening and adjusting yourself.

I’m going to try changing my practice routine for a couple of Months. Maximum 30 mins in one session. I’ll go back to breathing exercises, buzzing, long notes and then a few minutes only of reading through some technical passages. When it comes to rehearsals and concerts, I'm going to trust that my practice routine gives me the best sound I can have, trust that years of practice has built up enough technique to cover anything I'm lilkely to come across 99.9% of the time and above all listen/watch what's going on around me. As for gear, I'm not going to go all Marie Kondo on my trombone collection just yet but will try sticking to my trusty 8h as much as possible.

[SimmonsTrombone]

Jeff Reynolds recommends 20-minute sessions six times a day so this may work for you.

[Burgerbob]

I don't disagree. Simplicity is good. But being picky about details (in equipment, music, fundamentals) is also a huge part of the trombone/music profession as well.

Don't miss the forest for the trees, but don't forget the forest is made out of trees either.

Tom Hooten, principal trumpet at LA Phil, says a huge percent of his orchestral practice is fundamentals, since everything he eventually plays on stage is just a culmination of those fundamentals.

It's good to practice excerpts a lot, but only if you have the building blocks in place first.

[norbie2018]

I work on fundamentals every time I practice (usually 6 days weekly) which includes Arban. I'm amazed how many times I look at a piece at rehearsal and think "hey, that's just long tones" or "hey, that's just an Arban exercise". It makes the music simple and allows me to focus on music making.

[cmcslide]

We do overthink things here - when speaking of equipment, for example, mouthpieces, what alloy and size of a bell, valves, other custom options like tuning slides or harmonic pillars or whatever. A lot of this is important stuff, but not as much as we might think. When talking about equipment choices, you want the gear that makes the music easiest to play for you. That doesn't mean everything has to be customized for the individual player - I have an old corporation 42B that can give me a wonderful orchestral sound, but it's not my first choice (the slide is definitely not the best!). It's fun to play-test, collect and customize, but the music has to come first.

[JLivi]

In short, yes!

But the rabbit hole of finding/trying new gear is really fun!

[imsevimse]

I don't think much of the instrument while I'm playing, and do not care much about the state of the instrument I choose to play either. I have too many to appreciate and do not want to be limited about thinking of differences or negative. Of course I have one favourite that is my choice for each context, but it could vary over time and I accept very fast they sound different and respond different. I think it adds to their charm. They are probably played differently by me but it comes rather natural. I just listen for the sound. All switching has made that to an natural process

I've looked at Håkan Björkman as he picks up his trombone. There is no worries. He is a guy that seams to just pick up his horn and blow. The distance between his mind and what comes out of the bell appears to be very short, in fact it seams to be immediate. No questions asked, nothing that bothers, it is just fun like a childs play. He knows he has all the technical skills he needs in his hands ALLWAYS and do all kinds of circus trix with a smile. I don't think a change of instrument would even make him frawn or raise an eye brow. Why think of the instrument as a problem. It has never helped me in the past when this was on my mind

/Tom

[Gary]

I won't say that other approaches are necessarily wrong, but I feel that there's way too much detail spent on things that become distractions.

Of course you want to explore ways/equipment that will make your job more effective the way you want it. But having said that, I feel there's way too much micro-analysis and too much time spent on the internet as opposed to spending time in the woodshed.

Two axioms have made a big impression on me and I think they apply. "The body follows the mind". I got this from the Martial Arts, but I think it applies. Too many people are distracted by extraneous things instead of having a very clear and precise vision of their goal.

And "Paralysis by analysis". Self-explanatory.

[harrisonreed]

I think it's important to get the equipment that is the easiest to play, and get that problem solved as soon as possible, especially the mouthpiece problem. Then the equipment won't hinder your practice.

The instrument issue is easy to solve -- a teacher or friend who is good enough to be a teacher can help you play test and choose a horn that works. Don't go down the rabbit hole of bells and tuning slides and leadpipes to solve basic issues. Those things can help only with very specific issues, and can introduce new problems as they "solve" old ones.

There is something to be said for "overthinking" the mouthpiece -- it's that important. All the practice in the world will not help you overcome bad shifts and other "hacks" necessitated by a mouthpiece that is the wrong size for the player's embouchure type. Overthinking this one thing can save YEARS of wasted effort.

[imsevimse]

Over thinking in it self indicate "to think more than what is helpful"

I agree the mouthpiece is important and the horn but depending on where you are in development and in your gols it gets more or less important to bother.

If you are new to the instrument you win to get an instrument that is very easy to play, and at a cheap prise because you are to "new" to choose your path. You are simply put not experienced enough to notice all the nuances of horns and mouthpieces.

If you are intermediate and think you want to change your instrument. Maybe you have decided to aim for high level studies in classical trombone playing or you have decided to get deeper into improvisation and want a horn for that. This could be the time to leave the first horn and buy a step up horn. Of course you can play classical rep on a small trombone or jazz on large bore but let say you are in a context that have yourself thinking about to buy a new horn. When you choose this horn you need to try a lot of horns and decide what you want. Try your friends horns. If you also want to change mouthpiece because your want to match your context you should do the same with mouthpieces. This is a process that can take time. Maybe you are on a budget then used is my way of thinking. A used horn holds it's value better and since you still are seeking your context you can not be sure what you want a year from now. It takes time to get used to new equipment until you have learned to change often, which is a skill in itself.

When you are advanced you do not need much advice to buy a horn. You know by interst what to try and what to do. You probably can make any horn sound decent at first blow and you probably also can make a lot of mouthpieces work good enough to know if they fit you or not. I think at this level you decide for the equipment that best serves your purpose. A horn for lead in big band, first trombone in symphony orchestra, second trombone in the same orchestra, solo-work, pit-orcherstra, marching band an so on. At his level material, bell size, brand and such are important. You probably can make anything work but will feel more "happy" with certain choices. Of course you still need time to adopt to learn the new horn or mouthpiece better but it is probably most obvious to you what is best for you and you do not need a teacher to tell you. People around might not notice the differences unless they are trombone players. The section will notice and they might give useful feedback.

Then there are people like me that owns to many horns and love to take on the differences and learn by them. I have horns for many different contexts. Horns that are very easy to play and give one type of sound and other not as easy to play but gives anther sound. I strive for the best sound of each horn and notice I have to play them differently to make them work. I do this as a challenge. When I return to a horn that is very easy to play I notice I have gained something from the other horns. I have people around with good ears who give feedback. I often have 2-3 mouthpieces to compensate horns to make them fit what ever I do.

/Tom

[BurckhardtS]

When it comes to practice, I don't think it can be stressed enough that it doesn't matter how much you practice it matters more HOW you practice. 20 minutes of intentional practice is way better than a week worth of unfocused practicing.

Equipment wise, find what works the best for you, keep playing it and don't change until you find something that's better in every aspect.

[GBP]

When it comes to practice, I don't think it can be stressed enough that it doesn't matter how much you practice it matters more HOW you practice. 20 minutes of intentional practice is way better than a week worth of unfocused practicing.

I disagree. Neither one is particularly helpful. However, If you have the horn to your face for a chunk of time six days a week, you are going to figure a lot of stuff out by accident. 20 minutes a day is not enough time. I require my 5th headers to practice 30 minutes a day, which is the district standard.

Equipment wise, find what works the best for you, keep playing it and don't change until you find something that's better in every aspect.

The only way to know if some other piece of equipment works better is to spend time playing on different pieces of equipment. You will need to spend some time doing this. I am in a new mouthpiece after the one I had been on for years stopped working for me. One year later and a dozen plus mouthpieces, I have found one that gives me the sound I want. Over thinking is definitely a danger. Not thinking enough about one’s playing can also cause issues.

[GBP]

I think it is important to play equipment that allows a person to sound and play the way they need to. I have a friend who plays bass trombone that has a naturally bright tone. He picks equipment that will help him darken his sound. I have the opposite tendency. I sound terrible on his horn.

[BurckhardtS]

When it comes to practice, I don't think it can be stressed enough that it doesn't matter how much you practice it matters more HOW you practice. 20 minutes of intentional practice is way better than a week worth of unfocused practicing.

I disagree. Neither one is particularly helpful. However, If you have the horn to your face for a chunk of time six days a week, you are going to figure a lot of stuff out by accident. 20 minutes a day is not enough time. I require my 5th headers to practice 30 minutes a day, which is the district standard.

Equipment wise, find what works the best for you, keep playing it and don't change until you find something that's better in every aspect.

The only way to know if some other piece of equipment works better is to spend time playing on different pieces of equipment. You will need to spend some time doing this. I am in a new mouthpiece after the one I had been on for years stopped working for me. One year later and a dozen plus mouthpieces, I have found one that gives me the sound I want. Over thinking is definitely a danger. Not thinking enough about one’s playing can also cause issues.

I'm just going to say you assumed a lot from my post that I didn't write, and that from what you said you don't actually disagree with me.

You're from Seattle, I might know you. How's it going?

[GBP]

You're from Seattle, I might know you. How's it going?

Who do you play with?

In my view it is not and either or situation. A player needs to put in time. Focused practice isn’t going to help a player whose not putting in enough time to make progress. Since you’re in Seattle you probably know at least a few players that are in 2-4 performance groups. They literally rehearse all week and then have maybe a performance on the weekend. A lot of those guys don’t practice at all but sound okay. All the rehearsals keep them in moderately ok playing shape. The negative from never really practicing is issues never really go away. They usually get worse.

I study with Doug Nierman. One great takeaway I have gotten from him is try as many different pieces of equipment you can. You never know if another mouthpiece or leadpipe will work until you try. I have learned a lot from various failed equipment experiments.

[Doug Elliott]

All of that depends on how much you know about chops and how much you know about mouthpieces It's entirely possible to be extremely efficient in both practice and mouthpiece choices. Endless experimentation can be a big time waster.

[GBP]

All of that depends on how much you know about chops and how much you know about mouthpieces It's entirely possible to be extremely efficient in both practice and mouthpiece choices. Endless experimentation can be a big time waster.

All that means is that your choice of equipment to try becomes more refined. As one becomes more aware of what their needs are. the list of possible choices becomes smaller.